Bedwas

[JohnCoffey]

I will be there for our next game( Ah yes,you don't get rid of me that easily ) but alike Malpas,am now sick to death of these squad rotations,..

They are not squad rotations – squad rotations are usually part of some master plan.

In fairness in the 7 games to date we have only used 14 forwards, but we have started 18 different backs, 7 of which have only played once and we have only used the same halfbacks in consecutive games on 2 occasions. That is not squad rotation. These are wholesale changes and the product of a clueless backs coach.

Lewis Dennet was man of the match last week & can’t make the 23 this week. The non-selection of Toby Fricker……!!! The substitutions in the backs today were correct but made way too late.

We await the protestations of the apologists – we are building for the second part of the season, get behind the young coaches, they have a plan, etc !! – they need to wake up and smell the coffee ! The points raised above are all well made. It could not be clearer that we have no shape nor game plan and the players don’t look as if they buy-in to whatever the coaches are trying to do - if indeed they are trying to do anything at all.

The diagnosis of the problem & the solution is pretty obvious. A Q&A with the players without the coaches present could be
revealing !

.

Good post John.

Why, thank you.

[JohnCoffey]

Have to say I cannot hide my disappointment. We looked clueless, paceless and luck a bunch of lads thrown together in a pub team. I have defended our lack lustre season so far with the hope that things will get better. I know Bedwas are the leading club in our conference and they oozed class today. Matt Allen at 8 was so prominent in every attack . Ross Wardle did everything that was needed of a big centre. Two wings with plenty of gas . Bedwas did nothing spectacular just executed their game plan perfectly. A game plan changed dramatically from previous seasons where they were very x Keys like,where the ball stayed with the forwards.
Our front row always holds it s own . Thought Lance and Jon carried well when we had the ball and in Jon we have boundless aggression. Our backrow did nt look right today. I think Cammie is an amazing player but is an out and out 7 . He is trying so hard and is getting so frustrated that he s taking too much on himself. Hence his numerous mistakes today. Think it s time to say adios to James Lewis . He has no pace , cant tackle and offers nothing to the team. It s time to move Dai Langdon to 10 if Lewis Dennett can t start.Poor Callum Hall looked out of his depth today. Carl Lewis is slow at scrum half . A shining light was Dan Haymond at 15. He s a solid performer who tries his best. We just don t look balanced at all. We have a couple of weeks to regroup and get the season on the rails again. Fortunately, we can finish bottom this year and we continue in the premiership. Next year who knows. On a positive the last time we shipped 50 points was LLANDOVERY away two seasons ago. The year we became league champions . So not all doom and gloom.

Well that’s Saracens v Wasps out of the way !
I’m going to jump to the defence of the players here.
A few facts - we are bottom of the conference; have scored less points than any other side; have the worst defensive record bar 2 sides; have the lowest bonus points, er 1; have no detectable game plan; no visible plan to break down defences; we concede 8 tries yesterday & we should say ‘adios’ to only one person. A guy who doesn’t get a start for 7 weeks, it’s against the best team in the conference, it’s our worst performance of this & probably several seasons, in which we had no consistent quality quick ball; a 9 you say is slow at getting the ball away and a 10 you say looked out of his depth, & you want to get rid of the 13 – great logic !

In my humble opinion James Lewis was one of our better players yesterday - made several good carries and tried hard to give us go forward from some very slow ball, as in fact did Dai Langdon by the way, - we do not play the game flat enough & that does not help our ability to break the gain line or get our wings away.

In a game that we must have missed a boatload of tackles I believe Lewis missed 1, which led to nothing, whereas other individuals missed several, some of which led directly to tries. Oh, & by the way – all the above stats applied after 6 games & he didn’t figure in any of them ! And it’s all his fault, I agree let’s get rid of him & all our problems will go away - no witch hunt here then !

I still think there is enough evidence that the players may well be good enough, & there are game moments from each of them when you can say they look decent players & we should be considering saying ‘adios’ to a couple of people a little further up the food chain - or else consider finding them some help. You say we looked “like a bunch of lads thrown together in a pub team” – is that the players fault or maybe a reflection on the quality of our preparation.

We have employed a different 10, 12, 13 combination on 6 occasions in 7 games and only once has the same combination played 2 games in a row. The players don’t seem to know what’s expected of them nor what they should expect of the players around them. Isn’t this & the development of individual player skills the role of a coach.

Fricker is a huge threat, do not understand why he was left out nor why it took so long to introduce him but it is not the role of the centres to get him the ball in any sort of space – that is a nonsense. It is the role of the game plan to open up spaces & that has to be a bit more comprehensive than let’s get the ball to Fricker – wouldn’t take long for opposition defences to work that one out !

Some of our forwards are putting in great shifts individually but there is no collective plan to build momentum and run through the phases. It is phase play which will create the space or mis-matches for Fricker & others to exploit. Bedwas scored tries after 4, 5, 6 phases – we kick it away long before that ! Several of the Bedwas tries were actually scored by a ball carrier, eg Morgan Allen, who never had to beat anyone as there was just space in front of them – that’s the result of several phases of offloads & accurate passing, with each player understanding his role which leads to a situation where there are either more attackers than defenders, a mis-match or a breakdown in the defensive structure.

We don’t do that.

[viewfromthestand]

James has started twice for Pontypridd in the last month. So has had game time albeit not for us. We obviously watched a different game yesterday as to be honest I ll stand by my statement I thought he had a shocker. I will admit there were more than James who looked out of their depth. Why I ve singled him out for criticism is he s a former full time professional player who has years of experience. Lets compare Ross Wardle and James Lewis . Both centres , both former full time pro players, and that s where the comparisons end. In my experience it has been the job of the outside half and centres to get over the gain line and make space for the wings to be able to operate at full speed and cross the line for tries. Hence a stopper at 12 and play maker at 13. Game plans are all well and good and great in the perfect world but you have to play what s in front of you. In the immortal words of Jiffy "see the gap and bang ". We did nt see any gaps or make any bangs other than the noise of our supporters chins hitting the ground yesterday. I agree with the fact we have had a large amount of squad rotation . way too much but I still believe there are reasons. I agree that 3 hookers in the same squad is not good but once again there are reasons.
I try to write honestly on this forum . It is my opinion and I respect other opinions. I will bow to superior knowledge.

[JohnCoffey]

James has started twice for Pontypridd in the last month. So has had game time albeit not for us. We obviously watched a different game yesterday as to be honest I ll stand by my statement I thought he had a shocker. I will admit there were more than James who looked out of their depth. Why I ve singled him out for criticism is he s a former full time professional player who has years of experience. Lets compare Ross Wardle and James Lewis . Both centres , both former full time pro players, and that s where the comparisons end. In my experience it has been the job of the outside half and centres to get over the gain line and make space for the wings to be able to operate at full speed and cross the line for tries. Hence a stopper at 12 and play maker at 13. Game plans are all well and good and great in the perfect world but you have to play what s in front of you. In the immortal words of Jiffy "see the gap and bang ". We did nt see any gaps or make any bangs other than the noise of our supporters chins hitting the ground yesterday. I agree with the fact we have had a large amount of squad rotation . way too much but I still believe there are reasons. I agree that 3 hookers in the same squad is not good but once again there are reasons.
I try to write honestly on this forum . It is my opinion and I respect other opinions. I will bow to superior knowledge.

Rugby is about opinions & I agree - we were obviously watching different games & I stand by my opinion, I thought he had a good game - the stats would prove one of us right & one of us wrong.
I agree with your basis - both former full-time professional players with years of experience but one was playing for the best team in the conference & the other for the worst. One was playing for a side which was always on the front foot & scored 8 tries, the other was playing for a side always on the back foot and conceded 8 tries. I also agree that Ross Wardle is a very good player but the difference in the sides on the day that they were playing for makes a meaningful comparison impossible.
Playing for Pontypridd is irrelevant - they have a different game plan, & playing with different players with different skill sets.
It is the first time him, Langdon & Hall have ever played together & they come together on a day we were smashed ! Make your judgement when we smash the opposition with 8 tries.
"See the gap and bang" - ok. Just where did you see any gaps in the Bedwas defence - there were none. We were getting slow ball & they were superbly drilled and played with an intensity in the first 40 minutes that just blew us away.
It is the job of all ball carriers to get over the gain line & they play in more positions than just outside halve and centre & it is the purpose of the game plan to shape what's in front of you - this is Tier 2 rugby. How can the outside half and centres get over the gain line and create space for the wingers if we don't win any quick, go-forward ball and none of the important game changing turnover ball.
A "stopper at 12 and play maker at 13" depends on your game plan. Think about what was successful for the Lions recently - it was not a stopper at 12 & play maker at 13. Farrell played 12, a play maker not a stopper, because that was the best way to execute their game plan. The game plan & its execution is the key.
We have some excellent ball carriers up front. It is their job to get us over the gain line, build phases & then the outside half & centres have options & can exploit the spaces that the phases create.
Perhaps you could share those "reasons" for the squad rotation & 3 hookers with the rest of us. It would help us enormously.

[The Watcher]

After having to have a lie down in a dark room I now feel relaxed enough to pass comment. Firstly I have to say that Bedwas played some excellent rugby but it was aided by a performance in the first half as grim as I have seen for may years (not quite as bad as Talywaun away in the Cup in the 90’s)
After 2 weeks of improved performance against Cardiff and Merthyr that was a giant step backwards in performance. The second half was much improved but we did still manage to blow at least 3 clear try scoring opportunities, For me the players need to ask themselves why the attitude was so poor in the first half in comparison to the second half and last 2 games, for me that was striking
I have given the 3 hookers in the 23 some thought, Bilton and Mann departed in first few weeks of the season, Max Williams not available as playing for Dragons or injured, Ash Sweet injured, Jacas still not quite ready and Rhys Clark sustained concussion that rules a player out for 19 days below pro level. So that’s 5 players gone from original squad and one new squad member not available for the Bedwas game. The other twice this has happened Clark was available but Jon Davies was on holidays, same issue, lack of bodies, hardly coaches loosing the plot.
On the issue of Jon Davies being subbed, for me that is down to him lacking the engine to do 80 minutes at Prem level, watch him, he is blowing badly by 50 to 60 minutes. That’s a shame as we need his pace, power and aggression, hopefully he puts that right with the conditioning coach
All are entitled to their opinions and I must say agree with the opinion that James Lewis offered little to the team. He played a limited amount of time for Pontypridd, if he did that well they would want to keep him. There were 2 ex pro’s at 13 yesterday, Wardle displayed, experience, skill, pace and power, in comparison James a long time professional, looks overweight, one paced and offered little to the team. Having watched a clip on scrum V I was struck at how little effort he made when a try was being run in.
As a realist and not an apologist I feel that we need to look at where we are as a club, having attended the AGM where the stark decrease in our income was highlighted, in excess of £80k in the last 2 years it was obvious and stated by the officials that theyhad to drastically cut the expenditure. The major expenditure is players and that in my view shows how we cannot sign the Morgan Allens, Wardles, Richard Powells etc. The premiership can be a harsh place for young players and that is what we have at the moment.
When we were relegated the officials were able through the hard work and the loyal supporters were able to provide Nelly and Jason with a budget in the top quartile of what they would compete with, I would guess the budget that our current coaches have is in the bottom quartile from what I have heard.
The same officials are still there, they are supporters and that would have hurt them as much as anyone yesterday. Its time to all stick together and work together to take us back to where we all want to be

[JohnCoffey]

I think we are all in agreement on that point - the long standing club officials are completely blameless for our current predicament & are doing a truly fantastic & often thankless job.

[Phillip Grey]

To be fair, I also thought James Lewis played ok and certainly one of our more experienced and creative centres.
Agree that he does need to do more though, but that isn’t helped by the team as a whole not looking like they know what to do.

I’m not sure if he started for Pontypridd either, think he was bench warming but maybe wrong.
Either way, wouldn’t want to see him leave given the other options we have in the centre at present.

Think we do need a big abrasive gain line damaging number 8. I agree with the above, Cameron is a fantastic player whom I rate as one of the best in our squad, but he’s not an 8 and its almost like the equivalent of playing Dai Jones at 10.

I can recall hearing stories a few seasons back, that when we lost Neil and Chippy would call the boys in for training at 7am on a Sunday morning. Not sure if true or just legend, but from the outside looking in it doesn’t appear that we have that intensity and focus that we had and definitely not what is required of a premiership team.

Pretty sure out of that era there were 10 players in yesterday’s team that were a part of it, so they don’t get bad overnight.

A lot of people have posted previously condemning negative posts, which I can understand as we are here to support.
But in the same breath we are proud of our club and to see it in its current state (results and performance wise) hurts and is extremely worrying the downward slide we are having.

Onwards and upwards, will be there at the Bargoed game hopefully cheering a rejuvenated team.

[JohnCoffey]

I think we have probably reviewed the Bedwas game to death.

The 2 weekend break from games has come at just the right time for us - we have time to recover from fatigue, concussions, strains, niggles & injuries, decide how we are going to win against Bargoed & have 3 weeks to work on it.

[david brown]

Well said ,let us move on and hope lessons have been learned .? Eagerly informed by my BEDWAS friends ,that 8 tries was the most they have scored against a fellow PREMIERSHIP club I really wanted to know that.

Well said ,let us now move on to the next game .However with regards to the analogy for the three hookers selection.Notice that appears to be down to examples of forwards being unavailable,?We do have fit three quarters available i assume, or maybe naming them would weaken the argument for in my humble opinion the selection of 3 hookers.

[Halftime Pint]

I think we have probably reviewed the Bedwas game to death.

The 2 week break from games has come at just the right time for us - we have time to recover from fatigue, concussions, strains, niggles & injuries, decide what we are going to do against Bargoed & have 3 weeks to work on it.

Couldn't agree more John. Think our supporters fall into some of these categories too, with recent matches!